This episode has been transcribed, edited and condensed for clarity by Niamh (@rivrdance), Maryam (@luckyyloops), Dani (@danielleskating) and Evie (@doubleflutz).
Tilda: You're In The Loop - we're here to discuss the ups, downs, and sideways of the sport of figure skating, and maybe give you +5 GOE along the way.
Kite: Hi, I’m Kite, and I’m already Tired of 2021 with a capital T. You can find me on Twitter at @mossyzinc.
Tilda: Hi, I'm Tilda - the T stands for "tired of this BS." I'm on Twitter at @tequilda.
Kite: Okay, so before we jump into this episode, we wanted to make one thing clear to the listeners. This is an episode about the four big national [championships] - Russian, Japanese, US, and Canadian. We're going to be focusing on the Russian and Japanese Nationals in particular but we are not going to be following our usual format of discussing the performances and the results and instead, we're going to be devoting this episode to assessing how these events coped with the COVID restrictions and the impact their actions, or inaction had on the skaters and the rest of the season.
Tilda: So we won't be talking about the fun things here [Kite laughs]. Should we get into it with Russian Nationals first?
Kite: Yes, let's do that. Let's just go over the podium for Russian Nationals before we get into the meat of this episode. In Men, in first place, we had Mikhail Kolyada, in second place, Makar Ignatov, and in third place, Mark Kondratiuk. In Ladies, first place, Anna Shcherbakova, second place, Kamila Valieva, and third place, Alexandra Trusova. In Pairs, we had Evgenia Tarasova and Vladimir Morozov in first, Aleksandra Boikova and Dmitrii Kozlovskii in second, and Daria Pavliuchenko and Denis Khodykin in third. And in Ice Dance, we had Alexandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin in first, Tiffany Zagorski and Jonathan Guerreiro in second, and Anastasia Skoptcova and Kirill Aleshin in third.
Tilda: We had some important withdrawals here as well. For example, we have the people recovering from COVID: Dmitri Aliev, Roman Savosin, Evgenia Medvedeva - who also had serious lung damage that required hospitalization - Victoria Sinitsina and Nikita Katsalapov - I think Victoria had lung damage as well - and, of course, Alena Kostornaia recovering as well.
Kite: So all of the withdrawals of the big names were due to COVID which, unfortunately, is kind of going to be a theme of this segment. Of the skaters who possibly to probably had it, but did not actually call [what they had] COVID, we had Anna Shcherbakova, who had pneumonia prior to Rostelecom Cup and ended up withdrawing from that, Alexandra Boikova, who had a cold and withdrew from the 5th stage of the Russian Cup, Denis Khodykin, who had an acute respiratory infection, and Jonathan Guerreiro. Tiffany Zagorski, [Jonathan's] partner, had COVID over the summer but we are not aware if Jonathan had it or not. So there were not a lot of details made public about the exact precautions taken prior to this event. Gorshkov, who is the president of the Russian Fed, said that skaters were required to test negative within [72 hours] of arriving at the venue - which has been pretty commonplace, it seems, over the big competitions that have happened this season. But there is no evidence that they required temperature checks or any other kind of precautions of the audience, which was quite packed, and, unfortunately, we did see instances of skaters flouting the mask rules - like in the Pairs photo that was taken after the event, where you had the three medallist teams taking press photos. They were wearing their masks in a way that a mask is not intended to be worn. That shows a general disregard for the precautions that were taken as well as little to no evidence of enforcement from the event’s organizers.
Tilda: Especially because those skaters who were in that photo, a lot of them have had COVID at this point.
Kite: It was just very unfortunate and disappointing to see that kind of behavior at a major event given how many skaters on the Russian team have been affected at this point. I think people in the figure skating community have been aware that Russia's team is not coping well with COVID right now, and after Russian Nationals concluded the crisis actually gained international media attention. Louise Radnofsky, who is a journalist with the Wall Street Journal, published an article on December 27th basically talking about how Russia's skating culture has been seriously impacted by the pandemic. A couple of notable quotes: “No other federation’s skaters have reported anywhere close to the number of coronavirus cases that Russia has." She also comments on certain skaters, in particular, Anna Shcherbakova who "[appeared] distressed and struggling to breathe,” and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, who had a bout of COVID in early December, "seemed sluggish and drained [following her bout with COVID].” It is quite notable, I would say, that international journals and newspapers are taking notice of the situation.
Tilda: So, once again, we also want to briefly touch on the responsibility of the coaches and event organizers have when determining when athletes can compete. We talked a bit about this before when we talked about Sofia Samodurova, for example, competing with a fever. The ISU has rules governing when skaters can be made to withdraw for medical concerns. Anna Shcherbakova is a minor, but she is over 16, and 16 is the age where you don't need a parent or guardian's consent to compete against medical advice. But of course, that's for international events, and the Russian Federation can set their own rules and we don't know what Russian Federation's specific rules are for this.
Kite: I think a major take away from Russian Nationals for a lot of people who watched it, unfortunately, was that Anna Shcherbakova did not look like that she was in a condition where she should have been competing or skating competitive programs to the level of difficulty that she ultimately did. She was seen visibly struggling to breathe after her Short Program, which was the standard layout [of] Short Program that she's been doing since she started her Senior career, and usually it's not something that's extremely difficult for her to do. She was seen at the boards beforehand inhaling something which possibly was smelling salts. For those of our listeners who might not be aware, smelling salts are basically solid ammonia carbonate and it's used to revive athletes like boxers - so if a boxer is knocked out, they can be brought to with smelling salts. But it's very dangerous because it can mask concussion symptoms and it's also used as a stimulant for other athletes. I feel like most people know in general that inhaling ammonia gas is not great - if it's in a large enough dose, it can be fatal and even in smaller doses, it can irritate the mucus membranes in the nose and mouth. But it is not specifically banned in athletic competitions. So this is speculation based off what was seen on video, that she definitely was seen inhaling something at the boards that her coaches gave her and, based on her condition after the skate, it was thought that it could have been smelling salts.
Tilda: And I think you wanted to talk a little bit about the medical side of COVID, that I think you know a bit more than I do?
Kite: Yeah, so we're not really going to get into super esoteric detail here but, basically, around the same time that these events were happening, there was this well-publicized study that came out of the Ohio State University that studied athletes post-COVID to see what the effect on their hearts was. They surveyed only athletes with mild cases - so none of them were hospitalized and none of them received anti-viral therapy - and post-recovery, which was 11 to 53 days after their quarantine, they underwent cardiac MRI's to see what kind of effects on the heart that their bout of COVID had caused. And it was found that 15% of the athletes had myocarditis, which is inflammation of heart muscle, with symptoms including chest pain, fatigue, shortness of breath, and arrhythmias - which is just basically an irregular rhythm of the heart. In addition to that, an additional 30.8% showed late gadolinium enhancement (LGE), which is a cardiac MRI technique that identifies scar tissue. So an additional 30.8% of athletes surveyed showed evidence of heart damage as a result of COVID. If you add that up, that's almost 50% of athletes, that showed some evidence of an effect on the heart or heart damage and this is significantly after they were actually sick.
Tilda: And this is with the ones who had mild cases as well.
Kite: Yeah, so none of these people were hospitalized or received any special therapy aside from what you would normally take if you got sick. So, obviously, that's a pretty stunning result. This is not necessarily super new research, we've known for a couple of months now that a pretty significant proportion of people have complications even after they're no longer testing positive for COVID and I think that it's really quite concerning to see this pattern in athletes because you think of athletes as people who are physically very fit and healthy. And all of the athletes, the sports that they surveyed, were all cardiac-intensive sports and I think figure skating would also fit into that category. So it definitely is extremely concerning to consider the fact that a lot of the athletes who had COVID and are now skating may still be dealing with complications that we don't know about.
Tilda: So, again, we have to consider what the role of the coaches and parents are when prioritizing skaters' safety. When perhaps this is not the kind of decision that a minor is necessarily in the right state of mind to take.
Kite: Right, and I think what we observed over Russian Nationals as a whole, personally for me at least, wishing that the adults that are around these minor skaters - whether it's parents, guardians, coaches, or choreographers - that they would have taken a more forceful stance if they were aware that the skaters were struggling this much. Because if you see a skater struggle the way Anna did after her Short Program, that is not something that came out on the day of the Short Program. That is something that they would have seen in practice.
Tilda: She did have a fever, as reported by RSport. Before the Short Program, she had a fever of 38 degrees Celsius, which is 104 degrees Fahrenheit. She was still permitted to compete because she reportedly refused to withdraw.
Kite: Right, so according to the article, her team said that they did offer her the chance to withdraw if she wanted to and she said no. Then the following day, before the Free Skate, she refused to have her temperature taken.
Tilda: Which, again, is perhaps not a choice that she should have necessarily been given.
Kite: That just, for me, throws into question the whole organizational aspect of this event. I would assume that the point of taking temperatures of the skaters and coaches before they compete is to make sure that they aren't posing health risks.
Tilda: And I mean this is not just for her health, this is for the health of the other athletes [as and indeed all of the other people around her. I mean, the reason we have COVID and temperature tests is to protect everyone in the event from the risk of infection, right?
Kite: Exactly. And, obviously, the skaters aren't going to be wearing masks in their six-minute warm-up or during their program - that's just not something that's realistic - but you also saw, for example, at the boards, a lot of coaches were not wearing masks at all during the program or were wearing them improperly, so they weren't covering both the mouth and the nose. So, to me, that really speaks to the kind of lax enforcement of these regulations that are really there to keep everyone safe, including the skaters. Because, at the end of the day, they're really taking a big risk to their health by competing at all. So it really was quite upsetting to see that - again, not to really beat this dead horse any more than it needs to be, but a lot of the Russian national team has had COVID at this point. Some very top athletes have had complications that have required them to be off the ice or to even be in the hospital. So, one would hope, at one point or another that the people who are organizing this event would take a look at the situation and realize how serious it is and try to implement more stringent protocols if you are going to have an event as big as Russian Nationals.
Tilda: And especially because we also had Sofia Samodurova who competed with a fever at Test Skates. That shows it happened once, and it [happened] again. So it makes one wonder if, after that happened, if they hadn't implemented more measures to make sure it didn't occur again.
Kite: Right. I personally would not assume that there was any sort of harsh response from the Russian Federation towards what happened with Sofia at Test Skates if this happened again [here.] It was publicized in the news, but obviously, they don't think that there's going to be any kind of strong response from the federation. And we do want to point out that this is a very complex issue to unpack because Anna is a minor. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's the adults around her who should be taking responsibility for her health and her safety but I do have to wonder what is the point of having health guidelines in a pandemic if the athlete is allowed to decide which health checks they undergo. But, I do have to wonder what is the point in having health guidelines in a pandemic if the athlete is allowed to decide what health checks they undergo. To me, that's not something that should be optional.
Tilda: And of course it raises a huge question about Worlds. If Worlds happens, is it fair to risk the health of other athletes, because some teams - like the Russian team - haven't shown a willingness to adhere to safety protocols in their own domestic competitions? So, how safe is it to have them travel to another country and compete with the entire international skating world?
Kite: Right, and it's attitude reflects leadership. So, you have teams who are willfully disregarding COVID protocols, allowing their skaters to compete while they are ill, if not with COVID then at least letting a skater compete with a fever, we know something is not right and since a fever is a symptom of COVID, it's very inappropriate to say "Well, they didn't want to withdraw, they didn't want their temperature taken but we let them compete anyway." I feel like if you're not willing to adhere to the standards that are set in order to keep everybody safe then you should not be competing frankly.
Tilda: One thing that worries me personally is that the Russian Federation is one of the biggest and most influential in the ISU, and I have a hard time imagining either the ISU sanctioning the Russian Federation directly for breaking safety protocols, but also I have a hard time imagining any federation being willing to show such blatant disregard for protocol as well. It does almost feel like they can get away with it, you know?
Kite: Absolutely, and I think this laissez-faire attitude is definitely due to the fact they are one of the most powerful federations in the world, and their skaters win medals, so it's not in the ISU's best interest to take out a whole swarf of top elite skaters, from a business perspective, that's just not going to happen. I think what they could do in their inability to sanction Rusfed or specific teams, what they could do is create more swooping infrastructure in general, to ensure people don't slip through the cracks when it comes to getting tested and being asymptomatic, and they can't take backdoors and just refuse to get their temperature taken, and they really need to be zero tolerance when it comes to things like this because at the end of the day, it's not only their health but the health of everybody whos there, including people who might be at risk, people who are older, who might have health conditions and that's something they really need to close every door that's even slightly ajar for World's not to turn into a super spreader event because as we've seen, there are teams who, unfortunately, are willing to disregard public safety and public health in the interest of their skaters being able to compete, and I don't think that's acceptable. And, I hope that the international skating community also feels like that's not acceptable, and pushes for these changes to be implemented prior to Worlds if it's to be held at all.
Tilda: At the same time, it's like these skaters are all incredibly talented, and a lot of them are probably competitors for Olympics spots, Olympic medals, so it does seem rather risky to risk their health in this way from a medals standpoint. I think it would have been a better strategy to be careful this season and try to prepare more for the Olympic season instead.
Kite: I agree with that, and I just want to make it super clear because we're being quite critical of how this event was organized, that we don't place any of the blame on the skaters themselves. Especially in Russia, they do feel undeniable pressure to compete because, in normal years, Russian Nationals is a prerequisite to make it to the Spring championships like Europeans and Worlds. That is probably going to change this year just because some of the big names had to withdraw, and I assume that they're going to try to make the Worlds team if they are physically capable, so they're going to have to tweak their guidelines a little bit. Just to reiterate, we are not placing this on the shoulders of the skaters, but rather the whole organizational structure that allowed this to happen to begin with, and as Tilda said, no-one really wins in this situation. You have these extremely talented skaters who are capable of winning World and Olympic medals and it's really disheartening to see their federation and teams seemingly willing to risk that so close to the Olympics because the Olympics are only a year away at this point.
Tilda: I also think that the media have a responsibility to call out concerning things when they happen, which I haven't really seen happening. I haven't seen people in the skating world calling it out either.
Kite: Yes in some cases, no in other cases. So, before we get into this because it's quite hefty and kind of a complex topic, there is precedent for commentators, at least, calling out situations that make them uncomfortable or seem unsafe. So, at the Cup of Russia 2016, Eurosport's Simon Reed criticized Alexei Urmanov, Yulia Lipnitskaya's coach, after Yulia stopped a program due to an injury that had been bothering her for quite a while. Both commentators were quite shocked that a) she went out to compete at all, and b) after she stopped, and talked to her coach, she then went back and completed the program despite visibly being in a condition where she should not have been skating competitively. Following the program, Reed said, quote, "I don't know what was going on in Alexei Urmanov, or Yulia's head, but she's only 18. He's not 18." And, I think that's a good way of approaching it. To remind the audience and the skating world that coaches do have a responsibility to their skaters, particularly when their skaters are quite young, to ensure that they are making the best decision for their safety and the long-term rather than chasing results in the short-term.
Tilda: And we did have Jackie Wong (@RockerSkating) criticizing Anna [Shcherbakova]’s coaches as well for letting her skate with a fever at Russian Nationals, because of the risk to herself and to others.
Kite: That was really quite refreshing to see because Jackie, as some people might know, is known for his live-tweeting of events and going through programs bit-by-bit. He is quite a big presence in the skating community, online at least, so it was really quite nice for him to come out and say point blank that this is not appropriate behavior from Anna's team and that it did pose a significant risk to everyone at the event, not just herself.
Tilda: On the flip side, we had Ted Barton's commentary. Ted Barton was the English commentator for the Russian Nationals, who said after her Free Skate, and I quote, "People question her, but don't. Look what she did. I try to look back and remember a moment that was this outstanding, and I can't." So, I think that is a pretty disappointing thing to say after a skate where she is physically struggling.
Kite: Right, and I just want to clarify that this was after her Free Skate, which afterward she didn't look quite as winded as she did after the Short Program. But in the Free Skate commentary, Ted did point out that she was quite winded the day before. “Struggling to breathe following the Short Program” was something he mentioned in his commentary after she finished her Free Skate to basically say she doesn't look as winded as she did yesterday, but to not kind of address the root of that issue as to why she looked so exhausted after her Short Program was quite irresponsible to be honest, especially from a commentator who a lot of fans did, and still do, look to as kind of this very positive force in skating, especially when it comes to junior competitions, and always trying to find the quality in a skater to highlight, and encourage them when they make mistakes. So, it really was quite disheartening to see that there was no attention given on-air to the fact that Anna was visibly not in a condition to compete. At the end of the day, if fans watching from home can tell, then people who are actually with the skaters or commentating on TV can tell as well.
Tilda: Of course, it's a complex issue. There are differences in what commentators can and can't say, and we are talking about a domestic event that is sponsored by the Russian Federation and Ted Barton was invited to commentate on this, and has been for the past couple of seasons I believe, he's been doing the English commentary. So, there is a bit of a question as to for example, what his motivations are. How much is this following the party line with him being invited to an event sponsored by the Russian Federation, and how much is his own opinion? He's been following these skaters for quite a long time, and I fully believe he has a personal investment in seeing them succeed, but I think there's also a degree of enforcing a culture where the long-term health of athletes is disregarded in favor of immediate success and where this is quite common to skate with injuries.
Kite: We are being quite critical with Ted Barton's commentary, in particular, I think it is important to point out that as Tilda said, it is quite difficult to extricate his personal investment in these skates. The fact that he is providing a service for English speaking fans who want to watch with commentary but don't understand the Russian commentary, for a domestic event like Russian Nationals, and that he is kind of providing that for people who want it, but at the same time, what financial decisions go into the decision to commentate Russian Nationals and what he is and what he isn't allowed to say on air. I think we have to keep in the back of our minds that ultimately we do not know the full extent of.
Tilda: I think we've both talked before in previous episodes, perhaps the episode we had about the medical side of figure skating, where we talked about the culture of competing with injuries and how it's often betrayed as a personal strength that someone is being strong and brave skating with injury, and how this is a very toxic way of looking at things, and I think this view has only being extricated by COVID.
Kite: Yeah, so going back to Ted's comment about people questioning her, I think it's very troubling to portray Anna winning Nationals, which she did for the third time, as some kind of evidence of her personal strength or her pushing back against quote-unquote “doubters or haters,” and to frame what is fair criticism of her physical condition as a personal vendetta of fans when from all accounts there was ample reason to be concerned for her safety and the safety of those around her. I just think, like you said Tilda, that it's very toxic to frame this in a way that should just be considered as a positive that she won instead of considering the underbelly of the culture that caused her to get to this place.
Tilda: I think that with a crisis like this, it could lead to a change in the status quo where we see how unsustainable this and where this could provide a window of opportunity for long-term change, but what I'm seeing instead is a doubling down on the current practices and it's making me not very hopeful for the future of the sport if I'm being quite honest.
Kite: Right, and at the end of the day, I guess if you want to put it just in terms of results, the top ladies are still competing quote-unquote well, despite most of them having been inflicted with COVID at this point. Anna was able to skate a clean Free Skate and was rewarded very generously by the judges for it, so it doesn't seem like there is really any inclination for them to change or a shift in attitude if they're rewarding the same risky behaviors that they've always been rewarding.
Tilda: And of course, we have two more Spring competitions being announced, not too sure what will happen with those.
Kite: On one hand, I'm just kind of why, capital w, is this necessary? Especially, they were announced during Nationals which by all accounts is kind of messy affair, but on the other hand from a logistical standpoint, I do understand why they decided to organize two more events because a lot of top skaters didn't make it to Nationals because they were sick. Russia usually chooses their Worlds teams after the European Championships, but those are canceled, so they're going to need some way to determine who qualifies for the team. So, their National champions are automatically guaranteed spots, but there are still spots open that remaining skaters are going to have to compete for and I guess their hope is that the skaters who were ill will be recovered by February, March, April to fight for those spots.
Tilda: On the other hand, this is the way they do it every year, but I think the insistence on the drawn-out selection process is kind of baffling even with this many other skaters out of the competition. I do feel like it would have been better to just settle the teams now and give more of a recovery time to those who had to sit out on Russian Nationals because they were obviously not well but I feel like the smartest thing for them to do would be to adopt the Japanese way of selecting a Worlds team, for example.
Kite: Well, speaking of…
Tilda: Oh yeah! Let’s talk about the Japanese Nationals!
Kite: It’s still a bit upsetting but for different reasons.
Tilda: Let’s talk about the podiums. For Men’s Singles we have Yuzuru Hanyu (Gold), Shoma Uno (Silver), Kuma Kagiyama (Bronze.) For Ladies Singles we have Rika Kihira (Gold), Kaori Sakamoto (Silver), and Satoko Mihara (Bronze.) We did not have a Pairs event so we’ll skip that category. For Ice Dance, we have Misato Komatsubara and Tim Koleto (Gold), Kana Muramoto and Daisuke Takahashi (Silver), and Rikako Fukase and Eichu Cho (Bronze.)
Kite: Yeah! Japan announced their Worlds teams right after Nationals so they are the same as the medalists for the Men and Ladies [events]. Team Koko will be going for Ice Dance. Riku Miura and Ryuichi Kihara will go for Pairs.
Tilda: Again, I think this selection is smarter to do. It’s the way it’s always been done. I think the Russian Federation should have looked at the Japanese selection method and been like, “Hmm, that’s probably a better thing to do in these trying times.”
KIte: Yeah. It’s important to point out that neither of them are perfect. I think in the interest of not infecting even more people that have already [previously] been infected, the Japanese method in that sense is better, but also comes with its own baggage of skaters being pressured to come to Nationals, so let’s get into that. In terms of athletes being infected, there’s not really any comparison between Japan and Russia. As far as we know, there are not any top skaters at least that have gotten sick as a result of COVID.
Tilda: Which of course could be because there has been less COVID spread in Japan than there has been in Russia. This is not saying Japan has done a good job keeping control of the pandemic, but Russia is a lot worse.
Kite: That said, there has been some behavior that occurred at Japanese Nationals and then at the Nagoya Skating Festival where skaters took group photos without masks. Rika Kihira did clarify that they only took off the masks for the group photo.
Tilda: They should not have taken off the masks anyway.
Kite: Beyond the skaters taking that risk, it does point to a lack of strict enforcement of the measures that were put in place as a result of the pandemic, and it is important to point out that there was quite a sizable audience at the skating festival. Even if they all were wearing masks, you can’t really socially distance if you’re packed in.
Tilda: We talked about this in the last episode so we won't go into it here because it seems like Japanese Nationals followed around the same precautions as they did at NHK Trophy, which we discussed in episode 52. But one big difference here compared to NHK was that some skaters and coaches had to travel internationally to get to Japanese Nationals.
Kite: So you had Satoko who trains in Canada with Lee Barkell. She came two weeks before the start of the event to complete the quarantine period in Japan before she could compete. Lee Barkell also came all the way from Canada just for her. She was his only skater at the event, which I thought was kind of strange being that he would come all that way just for one skater. You also had the Swiss team (consisting of) Stéphane Lambiel, Rika, Shoma, and Koshiro [Shimada.] It's not known when they arrived in Japan but it's likely that they also came early because Japan is quite strict with its quarantine requirements. According to the US Embassy, you need a negative PCR test in order to even get on the flight to Japan. You then get tested again at the airport and self-quarantine for 14 days.
Tilda: It's also worth pointing out that after Japanese Nationals, they (Japan) did have a big surge of cases, and now there is more of an extensive travel ban. So if it had happened the week after, it is doubtful if Lee Barkell and Stéphanel would have been able to get into Japan.
Kite: Important again to note that would have only been before Nationals. The skaters themselves that were Japanese citizens would have still been able to come so it would have cut down on some of the risks, but the majority of people coming in from abroad are going to be skaters. It did seem that spectators were discouraged from throwing gifts or shouting during programs, and face masks were mandatory, but all that being said, the rink was still pretty full. That obviously poses the question of why Japan chose to hold this event with an audience at all. At the time, Japan's cases were also on the rise and they discovered that the more infectious mutation was already present in the country. Just a hammer that point home, on the day of the men's short program of December 25th, daily cases in Japan reached an all-time high - and they were having this sporting event indoors with an audience.
Tilda: It doesn’t look good. I feel like there is no reason why this couldn't happen without an audience like Skate America. I believe that the US Nationals will also be held without an audience.
Kite: Yeah. Except for funding which is usually the bottleneck of skating in general. But even with that, the money that you would gain from fans purchasing tickets kind of falters when you consider the fact that the USFSA is going to be holding two big events without spectators this season. And they do not have near the amount of sponsorship that JSF does. Figure skating in general in the US does not have the same level of national interest that has made figure skating so lucrative in Japan. In that sense, if a federation that is not as well funded is able to have these events in a “bubble,” it makes the decision even more head-scratching to me.
Tilda: But on the other hand, it might be one reason that [the JSF] want to maintain the “business as usual” approach because it’s such a lucrative industry and they want to keep that machine going. There’s a lot more at stake considering that Japanese Nationals is seen as a very major event. It might have been pressure from sponsors etc..
Kite: Yeah I think that’s definitely a possibility. It can also be pressure to showcase “safe attendance” because the 2021 Tokyo Olympics, which were obviously postponed, are coming up and there is definitely pressure on the Japanese athletic industry to be like, “okay yes we can do this safely and you don’t need to worry about being in the audience during the Olympics or Nationals.” It is important again to point out that China was planning on doing something similar. They were supposed to hold the Grand Prix Final this year in Beijing, and obviously, the 2022 Olympics will be there, so the Grand Prix Final was meant to be used as a test event for the Olympics - and that was ultimately canceled. The Cup of China, as we mentioned in the last episode, was only held with domestic skaters. Given that the 2022 Olympics where figure skating is actually going to be featured, seems like a much bigger loss to take for the hosting country than the summer Olympics for a figure skating national championship.
Tilda: One thing I want to touch on is I think Yuzuru Hanyu should be the JSF/ISU pandemic chief, if I’m being honest.
Kite: Yeah. He competed for the first time this season at Nationals after he pulled out of the Grand Prix due to concern for his own health and for the health of his fans who would have come to see him. Throughout Nationals, he was very vocal about his discomfort regarding the risks of competing in front of a live audience during a pandemic. He made it clear that Japanese Nationals was a prerequisite for Worlds, and anyone who wanted to qualify for Worlds was required to show up for Nationals. But in all of his interviews, he really did point back home to COVID and the fact that athletes are at risk for complications like we talked about earlier and also for the potential for healthy young people to spread it to vulnerable populations. He was very candid about his concerns about having this competition.
Tilda: I think it’s really admirable that he’s using his influence and status to spread awareness about this especially since he had been pretty much pressured into competing. At the same time, I think it’s not great that it is the athletes that have to bring up these questions because I feel like it should be the officials. It should be the responsibility of the officials to tackle these questions and not up to the competitor to be the one to raise these issues.
Kite: Right. We like to joke around like “Yuzuru should be the pandemic chief” but it does make me quite sad at the end of the day that he felt the burden of responsibility to come out and speak on behalf of I’m sure many skaters, for one reason or another, were not comfortable saying anything but also felt these concerns. It does make me quite sad that athletes can’t just be athletes during this time- they have to be a “watchdog” for the federations to make sure they’re being held accountable. On the flip side of this, I think it is important that Yuzuru is in quite a unique position right now in the sport. He is a two-time Olympic champion and he’s one of the most recognizable faces in the sport- probably ever. There’s less risk to him in terms of backlash in speaking out and making his position known versus someone from a smaller federation or someone who has only been on the international stage for a few seasons. He really is in a position where he can make his concerns more vocal and not have to fear and much that there will be retribution against him.
Tilda: I think it’s really good that he’s using his platform in that way.
Kite: Yeah. I do think that it’s important to say that because obviously, we’re not holding it against any skaters who didn’t speak out because it is a very difficult thing to do and consider political repercussions of saying something like that and being so openly critical. We commend him for his courage for sure, but we don’t fault anybody who chose to be silent despite having concerns. I think Nathan Chen is in a similar sort of position. He did make some comments over the summer about the confusion surrounding the Grand Prix Series when it was a “will they, won’t they” situation. In August, when they announced that they would be going ahead with a normal Grand Prix, he did have quite a few questions that he asked logistically like, “Are they going to change location? Will there be an audience? Are we going to be there in person?” Things like that. But, Yuzuru is the only person to date who has been so openly critical.
Tilda: I think it would be easier for the coaches to speak out. They also have a risk that it could be taken out on their students if they speak out. But they are also not in as vulnerable of a position as the skaters. The coaches are often older people who have more experience and understanding than the skaters who are often quite young. I think that we should be talking about the skaters who are being quite silent on this.
Kite: It’s a really difficult tightrope I think for coaches specifically to walk because unless you’re one of the top five coaches in the world in terms of your skater’s results, it can be really nervewracking to worry that it might be taken out on your students if you choose to say something. I think my issue is more with the officials because you’re running the event. You’re in the perfect position to object or institute stricter regulations- and none of them have really done so which is very odd to me.
Tilda: On the other hand you think that the officials aren’t necessarily in the media spotlight and if they were to speak out, it would more likely be within the organization, so we don’t know the politics of what is happening behind the senses. I would have expected something, you know?
Kite: Yeah. Given especially that a lot of the officials are older and in a higher-risk category because of their age and complications with COVID.
Tilda: Oh yeah. If we’re talking about judges and stuff.
Kite: But as you said, we don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes. Maybe some of them have spoken up and (more) precautions are taken as a result of that. Just in general, for people who are in more of a position of power, not being public with their statements is quite strange in a time like this.
Tilda: So let’s talk about the US Nationals!
KIte: Yeah! So US Nationals is going to be the same as Skate America in terms of being held in a “bubble-” so no spectators. Based on what was said at Skate America, we can assume it’s going to be the same. Skaters and coaches all have to test negative and quarantine. While they are waiting for their results, they can only use certain elevators in the venue. There will be restrictions on meal delivery to minimize contact between people. Mervin Tran, who skates pairs with Olivia Serafini, said that prior to Skate America, they were fully quarantined from Las Vegas - where the event was held and that USFSA was very strict with them in saying that they wouldn’t be given any warning and zero-tolerance would be given so they would be out of the event if they were found to be violating the quarantine in any way, which is quite a strong stance for them to take so we commend them for that. Despite what Mervin said about the federation generally being really strict with their COVID restrictions, US Nationals has turned out not as safe as we'd initially hoped. Tom Zakrajsek is one of the coaches of several of the skaters who compete at the senior elite level, and he reported to be COVID positive. One of his skaters, Paige Rydberg also withdrew from the competition because she also tested positive. But, in spite of the fact that there are at least two positive cases in that rink that we know about, Bradie Tennell and Vincent Zhou who both train with Tom Z and with Paige still competed at US Nationals. Obviously, this is a problem because it's pretty likely they were in close contact at least with their coach or potentially other people who were infected. And so, it poses a pretty significant risk to the safety of the event if the contact tracing isn't being properly done. There would probably have been face-face coaching at some point in the period leading up to them traveling to US Nationals.
Tilda: Or at least face-face coaching with someone else who they then would have had contact with because everyone trains in the same rink.
Kite: Yeah, so the CDC is pretty specific about how contact tracing should be handled. If you're found to be in close contact, you're supposed to quarantine for 14 days. So depending on when Bradie and Vincent last interacted with Tom Z or with Paige or with anybody else in their rink who's potentially infected, it's possible that even though they tested negative when they arrived at the event, that could be due to them still being in the incubation period of the virus, where it's not amplified enough to be picked up on a test because the average onset of symptoms and when you get the most reliable test results is 5-6 days post-infection. So if they did have a negative test upon arriving, it is possible that that could've been a false negative, rather than them actually not being infected. And we do want to point out that there is a precedent for skaters pulling out of US Nationals due to COVID exposure. Christina Carreira and Anthony Ponamorenko who compete in Ice Dance ended up withdrawing because someone in the rink tested positive and they did specify that both of them personally had negative tests, but they decided in the end that it was in their best interest and in the best interest of the safety of the event to pull out completely, which is a really commendable and responsible decision. And I think, kind of like everything we've discussed in this episode, it's a pretty complex issue to weave your way around but it's not really fair to fault skaters necessarily for wanting to compete here because, for some of them, it's their first big event of the season, or could be really their only competitive experience of the season. But the fact that people seem to have slipped through the cracks does raise some questions about holes in the bubble that they've created that could potentially compromise the event.
Tilda: Yeah, and as for Canadian Nationals, originally they had postponed it until February, but now this week they have finally decided to cancel it completely. I think as a decision, this makes sense. Skate Canada has already been canceled in the fall, and apart from that, they've been experimenting with virtual competitions. But having a virtual Nationals would have been too much of a logistical challenge. I think everyone had been hoping we'd be in a better place at this point in time so that it wouldn't be unrealistic to aim for in-person competitions in the spring, but as you already know, the situation hasn't improved, and I think, with this in mind, the cancellation makes sense. They had planned a number of measures to reduce the danger, such as reducing the number of competitors and only allowing Junior and Senior categories, and only having two flights of skaters for each discipline, for example. But, obviously, that felt that this wasn't enough. I definitely recommend checking out Roman Sadovsky's vlog, he talks about his point of view of the cancellation. Obviously, for the skaters who are missing out on Nationals, it is devastating. Obviously, they want to compete, but I think if the organizers felt that there was no way to conduct the event in a safe way and following the rather strict restrictions in place in Canada, I think it's better to cancel it. Roman Sadovsky talked about how figure skating doesn't have as much money and resources as for example the NHL where they can make the logistics of the bubbles work out. As we've said before, the USFS made a goal of having a bubble, but in the end, it's not exactly a bubble in the strictest sense of the word, perhaps not as safe as we would like to have seen. So, regrettable that Canadian Nationals had to be canceled, but I think it's admirable that they took the decision.
Kite: So it sounds like the Canadian Fed is a little uncertain still about if Worlds happens, whether or not they're gonna choose to send skaters there just for their own safety, which is obviously a pretty unfortunate predicament for skaters to be in. But they have been having what they've been calling the Skate Canada Challenge, so a lot of their top skaters have been competing in these virtual events, which is kind of a series of mini-Nationals, just with a smaller field. So, I would imagine that if they were to choose to send skaters to Nationals, it would probably be on the results, or at least based somewhat on the results of the Skate Canada Challenge.
Tilda: I think that makes sense, we don't know at this point in time if Worlds is going to happen or if they're willing to take the risk of sending skaters there if it does happen. Okay, so I want to have a little bit of a Swedish corner. Here, as perhaps most of you know, I live in Sweden. I live within walking distance of the arena where they are going to hold Worlds this year, so this is very, very local and I have some concerns. I generally hold the viewpoint from the last episode that Worlds in Sweden is probably not a good idea because Sweden has had a very bad approach to COVID. First things first, the Worlds website still has a tickets page. They're still saying that tickets to the event will be available if/when the government releases new restrictions. Currently, the law in Sweden is that there is a limit of 50 people in the audience of a public event, but in the regions (so in the Stockholm region), the limit is 8 people in the audience currently. Obviously, having 8 people in the audience for Worlds is not going to happen. They are probably at the moment banking on those restrictions being lessened, and I think they probably will because those are relatively recent and I don't think they will hold very long. But to keep pushing back the decision is pretty unwise because we are only 10 weeks away, and you can't keep waiting and release tickets the last week not knowing if and when the restrictions are going to change. Another worrying thing is that Swedish Nationals had to be canceled in December because of regional restrictions.
Kite: Yeah, in terms of the wind vane for deciding whether or not events should be happening, if you're canceling your own domestic competition that people don't have to cross borders for, I feel like that's a pretty bad sign.
Tilda: Yeah. And all of the ice rinks in Stockholm were closed starting the 20th of December indefinitely for the public. I think that's also a pretty bad sign. The government's response in Sweden has been pretty confused and uncoordinated. I don't think there's infrastructure in place with regards to following up on people arriving from a broad reception or setting up quarantine or testing. So if the ISU and the Swedish Fed do decide to go through with Worlds, I think they're going to have some issues just on the lack of infrastructure and the lack of guidelines from Swedish authorities. There is also the financial situation. Holding Worlds without an audience could reportedly lead to a massive financial loss for the Swedish federation. They've talked about being potentially up to 3 million Euros lost, and most of that is in ticket revenue because around 60% of the revenue from Worlds is from ticket sales. If we're not going to have any, that's a big loss. That could potentially really endanger the federation. But apparently, the ISU has guaranteed them enough financial support that it would cover any potential financial loss. The ISU has told the Swedish fed to keep working, and that the Worlds will happen with or without an audience.
Kite: This is some famous last words stuff over here.
Tilda: Yeah, I found that quote pretty concerning if I'm being quite honest, I wonder how the ISU will finance that if they have to go in with money to support the Swedish federation due to the lack of revenue.
Kite: Right, I feel like the ISU is famously not a wealthy federation by international sports standards. When cases first started surging in March, and there was so much speculation over whether 2020 Worlds in Montreal was going to be canceled, it ultimately was canceled by the government of Quebec and not by the ISU. They really are constantly in this game of chicken with the government and with the hosting federation to see who's going to cancel first and bear the brunt of the financial damage. In that sense, I do have questions about logistically how that would happen if they ended up having to cancel and taking that loss because it really doesn't sound like the Swedish federation or the Swedish government is too keen on canceling either.
Tilda: Yeah, I don't think it's going to be likely that the Swedish authorities will step in to cancel it, so I think this will be entirely on the Swedish federation and the ISU if it had to be canceled. I think at this point, it's just a matter of their waiting to see if there's going to be an audience or not, I think that's the thing they're looking at. Even without an audience, I think it's really concerning. To hold it with an audience at this point it's looking pretty unlikely.
Kite: Yeah, especially what we just talked about, right? There are teams that have shown that they're not really willing to strictly observe the public health measure that are in place. So even without an audience, that doesn't minimize the risk entirely.
Tilda: Definitely not.
Kite: The call is coming from inside the house, but it's COVID edition with figure skating, it's skaters and teams that are posing risks to the other competitors, so that's something to keep in mind. As little as we want to think about having a major international event right now, unless something happens the next couple of weeks, it does seem like they're going to try to go ahead with it.
Tilda: And the organizers of Worlds have said: "The health and safety of the participants is our highest priority. We have a close collaboration with ISU to ensure the safe organization of the event. What kind of measure this entails is not yet decided." But again, it's just such a statement that fills me with not much confidence. Considering how the ISU has handled the GP series, the idea that collaboration with ISU is a positive thing is doubtful.
Kite: Yeah, that was a kind of very comprehensive rundown of what's happening on the organizational side of things. But I think it's important also to not lose sight of the more human aspect of how is this going to impact the skaters? Not holding Worlds at all could also disadvantage some countries or disciplines when it comes to deciding Olympic spots because Olympic spots are decided at the Worlds of the previous year.
Tilda: Yeah, I think that the ISU should be considering different selection criteria, not necessarily based on the results of the competition. But at the same time, it's hard to see a good way of doing it. If you're going to use World Standings or Season Standings, that would also be flawed, because we've only had domestic competitions this season. We also have a serious disadvantage for skaters who are coming from smaller feds where they haven't been able to hold competitions in 2020 because it's only really the major federations that have been able to put together competitions. And again, if we use those results from Worlds, that's also very outdated at this point.
Kite: Yeah, I think that the selection rules are quantified in the ISU handbook as far as Worlds spots determine Olympic spots, so I would assume that there would need to be some sort of amendment if they really did end up changing it. It's an exceptional time, so I think that could happen, but I think they're just pushing so hard right now to make 2021 Worlds that it doesn't seem like they're really open to that route, at least at this point in time. They are using the results of 2019 Worlds to determine who gets spots at 2021 Worlds, so in that sense, I guess there is precedent for that happening but there's just not really a good way to handle this where everybody wins. And at the end of the day, it's going to come down to what they decide is the most important thing to prioritize.
Tilda: Alright, I think that pretty much covers what we decided to cover today. Thank you so much for listening. We're not sure when we'll be back for our next episode but keep a lookout on our Twitter and our Website.
Kite: Thanks to our transcribing and quality control team, which is Becs, Lae, and Dani, Evie for editing, and Gabb for graphic design.
Tilda: If you want to get in touch with us, please feel free to contact us via our website inthelopodcast.com or on Twitter. You can find our episodes on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, and Spotify.
Kite: If you enjoy this show and want to help support the team, then please consider making a donation to us on our Ko-Fi page, and we'd like to give a huge thank you to all the listeners who have contributed to the team thus far.
Tilda: You can find the links to all our social media pages and our Ko-Fi on the website. If you're listening on Apple Podcast, please consider leaving a rating and review if you enjoyed the show. Thanks for listening! This has been
Kite: Kite
Tilda: And Tilda! Bye!
Kite: Bye.