This episode has been transcribed, edited and condensed for clarity by Evie, Tilda, Niamh and Becs.
Evie: You're In The Loop! We're here to discuss the ups, downs and sideways of the sport of figure skating and maybe give you +5 GOE along the way. Let's introduce this week's hosts! Hi, I'm Evie and I certainly am never taking the stamina I usually build up watching a normal season of skating ever again because I am absolutely exhausted after this week of Worlds.
Yogeeta: Hi, I'm Yogeeta, and I am greatly regretting my decision to become a figure skating fan.
Kite: Hi, I'm Kite, and I'm feeling like the Brooklyn 99 GIF where Jake Peralta just plays the guitar and screams.
Yogeeta: Moving on to Ice Dance...
Evie: So for our podium for this Ice Dance event: in gold, we have Victoria Sinitsina and Nikita Katsalapov representing FSR, in silver, we have Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue representing the USA and then, in bronze, we have Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier representing Canada. Okay, one positive thing about this Ice Dance event. I wanted to give a shout out to the commentator, Mark Hanretty, because finally the ISU has hired a commentator that knows something about Ice Dance and it's so nice considering the last couple that they've hired for major events, the Senior events, you can tell they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when it comes to Dance.
Yogeeta: Some of them didn't know what they were talking about with skating at all, to begin with.
Evie: This is very true. Even with commentators like Ted Barton who's followed the [Junior Grand Prix] and Ice Dance for ages, some of his commentary just doesn't really go into depth about the technical side of things. Obviously, Mark is an ex-Ice Dancer, and so he brings that to the table, and I found his commentary overall was pretty good throughout Worlds. In comparison to the other commentators the ISU has hired last year, I think he is far and away the best out of them.
Yogeeta: I hope that they keep on Mark full time as their commentator because he truly was a gift.
Evie: I appreciate anyone who just doesn't talk over the top of a program, that's it. I either want minimal commentary over the actual program or no commentary at all - let me focus on the skating itself. Obviously, this past season has been extremely rough for everyone on this earth, but I think in no other discipline was it more evident in how under-trained everyone is as a whole as it is Ice Dance. The difference in quality - especially because this is World's - we're so used to seeing Ice Dancers at kind of a stable level of quality throughout the season as a whole in a regular year, and this year we're watching a bunch of skaters who are under-trained or have serious health issues because of COVID, and you're watching it and just the level of quality overall isn't there and it's distressing to see and also, ISU why the hell did you make this event happen? but I feel like with Dance, even though everyone was a bit shaky and the skating quality wasn't there, the scores overall were extremely confusing and didn't seem to change that much from the overall trends we've been seeing for the past couple of seasons.
Yogeeta: I was kind of surprised at some of the scoring in the programs because they were - at the very start of the competition for me at least, seemed lower than usual. I was like "Yes, that's right," but then we started getting into the top teams and they started scoring typically around where they usually score and I was like "No, that's wrong."
Evie: And you think about how many of the top teams here train at Gadbois and how they've had to face with the shutdowns and the lockdowns in Canada and had limited exposure to ice time, and then on the Russian side of things, you had camps like Zhulin's camp that's just been completely overrun by COVID, and you can tell by the way they skated here, that they are definitely undertrained and not in key form and it was really distracting to see. And then on the Russian side of things, we've had major Ice Dance camps, and major training camps in other disciplines as well, that have been completely overrun by COVID. Every Russian Ice Dance team here had at least one-half of the pairing with a previous infection, and with Sinitsina and Katsalapov, Victoria's case was so severe she had a partially collapsed lung. All the teams here, not just the Russians, were clearly undertrained because of their individual circumstances and you could really see that in each of their performances. Overall, by comparing the skates we saw here at Worlds 2021 with programs from 2019-2020, you can look at the overall quality of the skating at any of these events and see remarkable differences in each team's skating quality. Whether that's in reduced speed and ice coverage, twizzles that are unstable and not as in sync with each other, teams being very visibly out of breath or tired by halfway through or the end of their programs or lifts looking labored and not as smooth in the entries and exits, or even in some cases changed to make them slightly easier overall. If you're looking just at the Rhythm Dance - the patterns, if you compare them to the finnsteps we saw last year. While most of the top teams did hit most of their key points here as well, the actual placement of the patterns on the ice were kind of all over the place. Some teams were starting their patterns way too far right, so by the time they got to the second half they were running out of room to complete their patterns. A striking amount of teams went far too up past the center of the rink in the first section as well. These sorts of errors would usually factor into the GOE of the pattern but that's only if Ice Dance scoring wasn't fundamentally broken for these top teams, given how the judging panel just repeatedly awards high GOE no matter what the quality of the skating and the patterns is. So, all of these small somewhat superficial errors just show that the teams haven't had the same amount of practice time with these programs that they would have in a regular season, which is not on them as teams - they've had a rough go of it this last year. But when you're looking at the judging, it just doesn't seem to reflect that at all here. The scoring overall - in the Rhythm Dance, looking at the score distribution here in comparison to last Worlds. Remember in 2019, we had Papadakis and Cizeron way out in front?
Yogeeta: They had like 90.
Evie: It was 90 something, and everyone else was just squished together in the low 80s, and it stayed like that in the Free, with Papadakis and Cizeron remaining in the front. Similarly, this year we had Sinitsina and Katsalapov, with not as much of a gap between the rest of them, but still with a 2 point lead. Then you had second to fifth all within 3 points of each other, and you're just like this is exactly the same kind of score distribution we've been having for the past 3 years. [Laughs] It's not as bad, but it's still really evident and just doesn't reflect the level and quality of skating we saw in this event.
Yogeeta: It's super frustrating because I think a lot of judges just see a team and they're like by default here's the GOE you always get on this element, so we'll give it to you - even if you're not up to par with your usual, and it's really frustrating. I saw some really, really questionable grades of executions being giving out for really bad twizzles, really bad lifts-
Evie: What's even the point of Dance scoring? I'm going to be 100% honest here - the scores in both the Rhythm dance and the Free, but especially in the Free - it feels like someone wrote out a bunch of scores last season before Worlds [2020] was meant to happen for the top 6 or 7 teams, said "Oh yeah, that's about where they should be'' and then, when the event got canceled, just stuck that piece of paper in a drawer somewhere just to take it out this year, look at it and go "Okay, well we have these scores, we should probably give them these ones here because we know where these teams should be scoring." If you take a look at the Free Dance, I think the program where the disconnect is most jarring is with Madison Chock and Evan Bates from the US. They recycled their snake Free Dance from last season, so this is a program with a decent amount of mileage on it already, and I think anyone who watched Ice Dance last year will have a pretty good picture in their head of the overall level of quality to expect when they usually skate it. So it's really easy for us to realize just how watching them here just how undertrained they are in comparison to a normal season, and how that stamina built up from a regular season's worth of competition and training just isn't there in this case. By the halfway mark of the program, you could see that Evan was clearly starting to struggle to keep his energy up in some places, like his facial expressions and his engagement with the performance of the program, because he was clearly trying to reserve his energy and his focus for his elements. You could see that his power in his steps and turns was just all focused on his knees, and his speed, overall, slowed down significantly when it got to the second half of the program - which, as a viewer, just screams to me that they've had a significant lack of preparation time going into this event. Again, they train in Montreal, they had to deal with lack of access to ice time due to lockdowns there. But it seems that the judges didn't seem to think that any of that was out of the ordinary, given that they got a 127 in the Free, which is just 2 points off their Personal Best which they got at the Grand Prix Final 2019. The Free Skate level overall here was so varying in levels of quality and yet the scoring overall has not changed based on the scores we've seen in the last 2 seasons and, as someone who's been following Ice Dance really closely this last quad, it's hair-tearing out levels of frustration. What does this say about Ice Dance as a discipline? We've been talking for years that the scoring system in Ice Dance is basically broken. I just don't know what to say at this point because you can't look at the scoring after this event and tell me it makes sense.
Yogeeta: Yeah, I completely agree. I think we already knew dance scoring was broken. First and foremost, it's the most political of all of the events, and whoever won was basically whoever had the most politicking power, and it's sad to say that Russia has the most politicking power now in Dance.
Evie: And Italy has the least.
Yogeeta: In an ideal world, Guignard and Fabbri would be winning the Dance event, but this is not an ideal world.
Evie: They had the cleanest set of programs out of everyone. Their Rhythm Dance was really strong and their Free Dance was also really strong. Piper [Gilles] and Paul [Poirier] aren't really so much Rhythm Dance skaters as Guignard and Fabbri are so I would have definitely had them at silver, at least, and out of the other teams we saw, I would have put Hubbell and Donohue on the podium for bronze. It's the scoring overall that makes me - I didn't even bother to wake up and watch the Free Dance because it was really early in the morning for me [in my time zone] because I knew how it was going to end. I knew who was going to win just based on the Rhythm Dance scoring. There was no way that after that Rhythm Dance that Sinitsina and Katsalapov weren't going to come home with the gold. So I was like “Well, I'll watch it the day after. I won't watch it live because I know what's going to happen.” Another stand-out part of this event actually was who wasn't there, reigning World Champions [Gabriella] Papadakis and [Guillaume] Cizeron. They announced a few months back that they would withdraw from the event, citing multiple reasons such as lack of competition, training this season, COVID-19 protocols such as quarantines and the psychological wear and tear of preparing to compete during a pandemic. Both Gabriella [Papadakis] and Guillaume [Cizeron] contracted and subsequently recovered from COVID-19 in July as well, and they also decided that the Beijing Olympics are the main goal for the near future and wanted to focus all their energy on preparing for the Olympic season which is coming up, so considering the state of everything right now, and their health in the offseason, it's obviously understandable them not wanting to risk coming to Worlds to compete, and also for the French federation to protect their best chance at medalling next year. This decision, however, did mean that France's opportunities to gain [more than one] Olympic spot in Dance were pretty much non-existent and, as a result of their withdrawal, France only has one Dance spot for the Olympics next year - which will undoubtedly be filled by Papadakis and Cizeron. There's also something to be said on how this withdrawal might affect their rapport with the international judges overall, in context with the rise we've seen of Sinitsina and Katsalapov over the last couple of seasons. We saw Papadakis and Cizeron lose the European title to them last year, and now S/K have won this Worlds after being quote-unquote truly untested against another team with as high scoring potential as themselves here. And now with a World title under their belt, I wouldn't at all be surprised if S/K's scores continue on their incline next year and, if that's the case, how Papadakis and Cizeron will react and adapt their approach to suit these trends in scoring going into the Olympic year could be a really big factor on where they end up on the podium at the Olympics next year. Okay, let's go on to talk about some of the stand-out performances of this event. Let's talk about Piper and Paul in a little more detail because Worlds medalists Piper and Paul are just the one saving grace.
Kite: The only good thing that happened in Ice Dance was Piper and Paul winning a Worlds medal.
Evie: They were so happy in the Kiss and Cry with that score. They looked absolutely overjoyed.
Kite: Piper's reactions are the best.
Yogeeta: They are probably the best Free Dance skaters here. They really embody their Free Dances, in a way that nobody else can - the emotion they put into it. When I watch them skate, I don't care about how well they do on their patterns or how well they're doing on the specific technical elements because they're just a pleasure to watch.
Evie: They have so much character and personality on the ice. Before this quad, they were always kind of the third-place Canadian team that were always known for being the quirky ones and seeing them grow into their own over the last couple of years... Now they're Canadian champions, they medalled at Four Continents, and now they're here as World medalists. That's insane. If they can get their Rhythm Dance levels a little more consistent because that really isn't their strength at the moment. If they can get that to a better level overall, they might actually have a really good shot of medalling at the Olympics next year. Considering how strong they are in their Free Dance like you said, Yogs, they have the potential to score really, really highly there. If they can just get their Rhythm Dance up by a couple of points, they could really distance themselves from the others.
Yogeeta: I believe they can do it! Let's go Piper and Paul! Let's talk about our favorite Italians who deserve better than the ISU gives them.
Evie: Yes. Charlène Guignard and Marco Fabbri who finished 6th here. Guignard and Fabbri are the textbook definition of technical excellence in Ice Dance. Even if their lowballing in scores and placements overall might tell you otherwise. Even through their issues with training time, the Italian federation actually hosted a domestic series of competitions, the Italian Grand Prix this season, in a similar vein to Russia's domestic Russian Cup. Although the Italian competitions didn't have an audience as Russia's did. So they were able to get some competition time in comparison to some of the other teams here. You can tell in the way they skated here, that they clearly had some more experience than others this year. Most of their elements were of similar quality to those we'd expect to see in a regular season, maybe bar a little bit of energy towards the latter half of the Free Dance, just because of stamina. We're used to talking about how great their speed and ice coverage is, it's top class. Their skating skills are some of the best in the field here, up there with Sinitsina and Katsalapov in a regular season's level of quality. They placed 6th in both segments and overall here, although based on the quality they showed in both programs, I personally would've put them at least 4th if not on the podium. I was really impressed with their Free Dance here considering it was a new program. I think it's really well suited to their style of skating. They use the music from the movie “Atonement” and also a song for the little sparrow. They plan to keep this program next year, which I'm very excited about because it was definitely raw here. They obviously haven't perfected and polished it yet because they haven't really performed it very many times. I really like the new combination lift they do in this, the one that goes from the stationary lift to the rotational spinning lift. It's so good. Although I kind of want them to change the end of the program because “Song for the Little Sparrow” ends really dramatically and the sliding exit from that spinning move doesn't really suit that. So maybe rethink that ending, guys. Other than that - it's so good.
Yogeeta: Okay. Looking forward to the Olympics for Dance. FSR has three spots.
Evie: We'll probably have Sinitsina and Katsalapov and Stepanova and Bukin getting two of those spots. I don't think that there's going to be a lot of competition for their third spot, I think [Tiffani] Zagorski and [Jonathan] Guerreiro probably have that spot under wraps. None of the up-and-coming Junior teams really have the scoring potential at this point that we've seen to match what Z/G have put out. I think that will probably end up being the Olympic team. Then we have the US with three spots. The battle between Hubbell and Donohue and Chock and Bates is going to continue from what we've seen. It's the constant back and forth of "It's my turn!" "No, it's my turn!" "No, it's my turn!" of the last couple of years.
Yogeeta: They're both going to the Olympics, there is no doubt. I'll be curious to see who the US chooses for the team event.
Evie: Yeah, especially because with Chock and Bates, I feel like last season they were very much clearly favored by the US fed. But this season - they're clearly undertrained, that's evident in their skating - but their Free Dance here and at US Nationals wasn't seen as favorably, the judge’s marks weren't as generous as they were last season. Even considering the errors that they had. I'm just interested to see the power dynamics in Hubbell and Donohue and Chock and Bates in their continued back and forth.
Yogeeta: And the third spot will go to [Kaitlin] Hawayek and [Jean-Luc] Baker, probably.
Evie: Probably.
Yogeeta: Canada also has three spots. Most likely it will also be the same three teams we saw here. Ice Dance is really consistent, guys.
Evie: It's just because with the teams with the three spots you have clear divisions between the top teams and the rest of the pack. In Canada you've got Gilles and Poirier, you have [Laurence] Fournier-Beaudry and [Nikolaj] Sorensen, and then [Marjorie] Lajoie and [Zachary] Lagha. Those are the top three, there's not really any other Canadian teams I can see overtaking. I'm more interested in the fight between that one Spanish spot.
Yogeeta: Oh god.
Evie: Because that has been a nail-biter for these last couple of years.
Yogeeta: I was praying for [Sara] Hurtado and [Kirill] Khaliavin to get into the top ten here. They missed it by one, they're 11th. To get into the top ten so we would not have to deal with this.
Evie: It's been so frustrating to see the constant back and forth between Hurtado and Khaliavin and [Olivia] Smart and [Adrian] Diaz. It's so annoying to see the Spanish fed pick and choose over and over again. Because, obviously, they haven't had much competition time this season, they both did a test skate and sent programs into the federation, and out of that, they chose Hurtado and Khaliavin to represent Spain at Worlds. I think that also just might have been considering they train in Russia and have had more ice time versus Smart and Diaz who are Gadbois and obviously haven't had that same level of ice time.
Yogeeta: The thing is that they're both fairly matched too. Both of them have around the same level of scoring potential so it's even more of a nightmare to choose between the two. Who would've thought that Spanish Ice Dancers was the drama we actually need in Ice Dance.
Evie: But hey, Team KoKo managed to qualify for the free here, which is so nice after they didn't make it in Saitama. And they got Japan a dance spot for the Olympics next year.
Yogeeta: I will be curious to see if [Kana] Muramoto and [Daisuke] Takahashi have improved enough in this past season to actually be a contender here, to get the spot. But most likely Team KoKo will be going to the Olympics.
Evie: Especially because Muramoto and Takahashi had a pretty - their growth in between NHK and Japanese Nationals was quite stark. You could definitely tell that they have been improving at a really steady rate. So definitely interested to see how this off-season will treat them. Especially considering the Rhythm Dance next season is blues and hip-hop, like it was in the 2016-17 season. We know that Daisuke is really confident in that kind of style of skating. Interested to see what their program will be for that. I'm excited for that theme in general because 2016-17 had some really great Short Dances with the same theme.
Yogeeta: But the issue of Muramoto and Takahashi is their stamina and getting through a Free Dance.
Evie: And their lifts as well.
Yogeeta: Yeah, so. We'll be interested to see how that goes. They lost Japanese Nationals by like 20 points to Team KoKo, so it will be difficult to improve by 20 points in the off-season, but hey. They're both seasoned contenders and if they have the will to do it, I know they can do it.
Evie: And another notable team that won one spot for next year, one that I am in particular very fond of, is [Shiyue] Wang and [Xinyu] Liu of China. Going into this event, they hadn't been able to train with their main coaches from Gadbois for most of the season, because they've been training in China throughout the off and on-season for this past year. That, and dealing with the pressure of securing multiple spots for their home Olympics next year, and dealing with significant injuries. Both of them were dealing with significant injury issues this season. Xinyu, in particular, had to deal with a hand fracture and back issues before Cup of China this season, and then after the Cup of China, he dealt with a lower back and ankle injury. Partly because of that, they had some technical issues in both programs here, in particular in the twizzles. In their post-skate interviews, they expressed they regret they couldn't show better performances here. But at this point, I just want them to stay in one piece and as healthy as they can be for next year. I really want them to have the best Olympic experience they can possibly have. Out of all the Chinese dance teams, they have the highest scoring potential. Even though [Hong] Chen and [Zhouming] Sun have caught up slightly in the last year, Wang/Liu is still very firmly the first place team in China. Barring further injury, they'll probably be assigned to compete in Beijing next year. Especially because they didn't qualify for the Free Dance at Pyeongchang, I really hope that they're able to have a great home Olympic experience next year. Because they deserve it.
-end segment-
Evie: Alright!
Yogeeta: Okay! Are we ready?
Kite: I'm not doing this. Goodbye.
Evie: Let's talk about the Ladies event. Hey, Kite, would you like to introduce the podium?
Kite: So... for the Ladies event, in first place, we had Anna Shcherbakova of FSR, in second place, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva of FSR, and in third place, Alexandra Trusova of FSR. I just want to confess that I wasn't even supposed to be on this episode until I watched the Ladies event and then I was like "No, I just have too much rage and I need to get it out in a public forum." So here I am.
Evie: Here you are!
Yogeeta: Here you are. We welcome you greatly.
Evie: And we just want to preface by saying that in comparison to every other event here at this competition, the Ladies event was by far and away the one with the results we disagreed with the most. To the point that, in our opinion, none of the Ladies that ended up on the podium here should've done so.
Kite: This is the first time in history, I think of this event, that Russia has swept the Ladies podium. I think we should just come out and say it: Russia should not even have been here. Their athletes, whatever flag or non-flag they're under, should not have been permitted to compete at this event in the first place. We'll probably cover this in more detail in the logistics episode that's coming in a week or so, but within a day of coming to Worlds, the Russian athletes were posting videos and pictures of themselves breaking quarantine and not social distancing and hanging out together in the hotel arcade or wherever they were. And really not even pretending to follow any of the rules that the ISU has set out for this event to keep everybody safe.
Evie: Wearing masks with valves on them...
Kite: It's been over a year, have we not figured out as a planet how we breathe? Is this still a situation that needs to be happening? And then the coaches publicly flouting quarantine rules or flouting social distancing or just basic sanitation. Zhulin posted a video, there was a rule where you weren't supposed to have your hand on the boards, because they were worried about germ transfer obviously. He posted a video of himself putting his feet up on the boards to just mock the rules of the event which is absolutely disgusting. It blows my mind that that kind of behavior isn't sanctioned at all, isn't punished. Basically, by doing that you're just telling them “Go ahead and do this, endanger not only yourself but all of the other skaters and coaches here. That's totally fine, we're okay with that, we're going to let you do that.”
Evie: It's absolutely ridiculous. Even disregarding their behavior at Worlds, I would argue that based on the way the Russian federation has treated their skaters basically as disposable throughout this entire season and the way that they've kept up with the same level of domestic events and have been endangering their skaters, many of which, especially in Ladies, are minors. It's absolutely ridiculous that they can get away with all of this with seemingly no repercussions from the ISU as a governing body. It's just really frustrating to see this kind of behavior completely swept under the rug. In our logistics episode that will be coming out soon, we'll be talking in more detail about the Russian federation's behavior here at Worlds, and the ISU's response to this behavior.
Kite: All of that aside, I don't think there's really any other way you could describe how this event turned out other than corruption. It sounds extreme, but let us explain why it is not. Let's talk about PCS.
Yogeeta: We can talk about falling in your program and still beating out people on PCS who were clean. And we can talk about someone falling in their program, two times, getting within one point of someone who had a clean skate. There's something innately frustrating when you see the Japanese Ladies, and the Korean Ladies, and also the US Ladies. All the other Ladies, and then you see the Russian Ladies. And then you see their components. And then you see that the Russian Ladies keep winning at components, despite the fact that they don't have as good skating skills. They don't have the performance quality that a lot of these skaters bring to the field. They don't have the ice coverage, they don't have the pure technical skill that you are actually really looking for in a skater. And then you see that they're winning everything, they get the best grades of execution for all of their jumps. They get the highest components. And you just wonder, why? Why are the other Ladies even here? If they can skate their heart out and give, in my eyes, some record-breaking programs, but not break any records, and not get the scores they deserve.
Evie: If you look more in detail at the performances of each lady on the podium here, each of them had clear, significant errors present in either one or both programs that should've more thoroughly affected their scoring overall. Anna Scherbakova who won the event fell on her opening quad Lutz in the Free, as well as showing, like many of the other Ladies here, that her training time and health this season have affected her skating quality overall. Some of her elements were not in the form that we've come to expect from her, in particular her spins. Anna has been known for the last few seasons to have some of the best spins in the field, but here she really struggled to get through some of them. Especially her flying combo spin in the Free, she visibly had real trouble controlling the position of her body and the speed and placement of it on the ice. I think there might be an argument to be made that she still should've ended up on the podium here despite the errors that she made, considering her Short was also well skated. But factoring in the serious errors and performance of her Free, gold doesn't quite make sense in this context. And then you look at Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, who came in silver. She also had a fall in the Free and a few issues with underrotations. And then Sasha Trusova who was third came in 12th in the short due to serious errors but managed to climb up to bronze after landing two out of five attempted quads in the Free. Neither Liza nor Sasha are skaters that I would consider to be strong on account of their PCS skills. They're both very technical skaters who rely more on their base value for placements. Both of their skating skills are not particularly strong in terms of edge quality and speed and ice coverage. Liza's transitions into her more difficult elements aren't as complex as some of her competitors, and Sasha's performance quality, while improved since her Junior years, still hasn't fully developed. However, it's their PCS in both of their programs here that I would say really helped them to get onto this podium - especially in comparison to the Ladies directly below them in 4th to 7th place. It's not particularly that they themselves are extremely overscored in PCS, it's that the Ladies below them were significantly underscored in comparison when you closely examine the programs that each of these skaters put out. Especially in comparison to skaters like Kaori [Sakamoto], Karen, and Loena who all put out near clean skates in the Free. I just wonder how must it feel to be these non-Russian skaters who continually put out performances that are medal or record worthy and consistently on an international setting not getting that recognition? How must it feel for their mental state, their emotional well-being just to see the hard work they're doing go unrewarded? And the knowledge that they have to basically 100% perfect in order to surpass the Russian Ladies and even then it might not be enough. It makes me angry sometimes watching how the judges reward some of these skaters even when they skate clean or close to clean in comparison to some of the others because it doesn't make sense. And it makes me really frustrated for those skaters and how they must be feeling throughout basically their entire careers.
Yogeeta: How can anybody just explain watching Kaori skate and then watching Elizaveta skate and give them the same in components?
Kite: Well that's the thing, right? Is that this has been a building issue in Ladies skating specifically, I would say since the 2014 Olympics and the fiasco that that was. Ever since then it's been like "Well if we can just get away with just politicking so hard for our Ladies that it meets and then surpasses corruption." Then, basically, where you're going to place relatively is determined before you even start skating just based on your nationality. I can't even describe how angry that makes me. Because the skaters who are not from Russia, they're not blind to this. They know that there are these injustices in scoring. And being current competitors there is not a lot they can do about it. They can't really be vocal about it. Like after the Free Skate, for example, Kaori - who had a beautiful Free Skate that should've won this event - said something about how they called the edge on her Lutz and she said "Well they wouldn't have had to do that if I'd just jumped a correct Lutz." I feel there is something so heartbreaking about hearing that because you know that they know that that's not the issue. The issue is not that you have some technical mistakes and that's why you're not making the podium or getting the results you want. Because you go out and see her competitors, they're not getting penalized for having incorrect technique. But a skater who isn't from Russia has to suffer through no fault of their own. Either call everybody or call nobody.
Yogeeta: The fact that Trusova, who had two falls in her Free Skate, got one point lower in components compared to Kaori and Karen [Chen], when skaters are supposed to be penalized when they have multiple falls and have serious errors in their programs, blows my mind.
Evie: It's ridiculous. It's not even just a problem with the Japanese Ladies. You look at a skater like Loena Hendrikx from Belgium who skated a clean Free, probably the best Free Skate of her career. She only got 66 in PCS because again small federation and not a lot of politicking power and her international reputation just isn't as strong because the last couple of seasons she's had problems with injury. But you look at that free and in comparison to some of the others, the quality is just over the moon better than what some of the other Ladies who finished higher than her put out. You just look at it and go "What programs are the judges watching? Are we watching different events?" Because these scores don't line up with reality.
Kite: Yeah it's stuff like this that makes me question if we're all living in the same 3D universe together and sharing this experience. It's unjustifiable to me because like you brought up, Sasha Trusova, who attempted five quads in her Free Skate and fell on two of them and if a skater from any other country had fallen twice in the Free Skate they would be bottom of the top 10 at best. That's not even us speculating. Like Rika was second after the Short, she fell twice in the Free, and she finished 7th.
Yogeeta: Even disregarding Trusova's score, I watched Kaori's skate and I was like "She's going into first" and then she went into third and I was heartbroken and also just confused.
Evie: I know that we usually get really angry over Ladies scoring and I feel like every competition that we've covered recently has devolved into us screaming "WHY WHY WHYYYY?" at these scores, but I don't think I've gotten this annoyed at Ladies scoring in the entire time we've been doing the podcast. This is the one competition where I look at it and it's so devoid of reality. I question why I even bother watching this discipline at this point if I know that the skaters aren't going to be rewarded for what they do well and punished for what they don't. It's just... it's so frustrating as a fan of this sport.
Yogeeta: The other disciplines like Ice Dance, Pairs - yes, we get it - at the very least the Russians there have the skills, they deserve their scores and PCS to a degree. But for Ladies, everything feels so fake about this. Not just with the Russian but also the scores the other Ladies get to boost the Russians up higher.
Evie: If we're talking about Kaori Sakamoto's scores in the Free here, to emphasize the discrepancy it's really easiest to directly compare her scores here to the last Worlds in 2019. Her program here was actually cleaner overall, the only error she made in her Matrix Free was the Lutz edge and the rest of her elements were cleanly executed in her manner. Versus in 2019 when she singled the solo flip. Her base value here in 2021 was three points higher than in 2019 however her TES overall was three points lower and while she scored a 73 in PCS in 2019 she only received 67.70 here. Even at Four Continents last year when she had several major errors in that same free skate, including a fall on the opening jump, she got 68 in PCS. So she skated a nearly clean program here at Worlds 2021 and ended up with 67 PCS. Meanwhile, in comparison, we have Anna with 72, Liza with 69, and Sasha with 66 - all of whom had at least one, if not multiple, errors in their program and they scored either higher or closely to Kaori's PCS.
Kite: I just- I don't know, what more can she do?
Yogeeta: Apparently she needs a Russian passport.
Evie: Like the level of quality that we've seen from Kaori time and time again and she's just consistently not being rewarded for it. It's so frustrating and multiple times I feel like we're just repeating ourselves saying that Kaori was robbed, but it's gotten to the point where we're just seeing it so many times that we can't not point it out. It's right there in front of our faces! You've got someone with the best double Axel in the whole field and some of the best skating skills here and you're just like...
Yogeeta: Her ice coverage is amazing, she just zooms across the rink. She goes into every jump with such speed, her double Axel-triple toe-double loop spans half the rink - but none of those are getting the grades of execution that they deserve.
Evie: Like the only thing that could put a benefit into her scoring is taking the Lutz out of the Short because even though the Lutz has the base value advantage over other jumps like the loop, the fact that she keeps getting dinged for that edge at both international and domestic competitions. You know, with the GOE factoring for that, you're going to get negative GOE if you get a call on the edge, it's just not worth it - especially when her loop is that good. I don't see why they've chosen to put the Lutz in versus the loop.
Yogeeta: But regardless, even with that Lutz edge call, she should have won.
Evie: Yeah. Let's talk about one of the other Japanese Ladies that was also here, Rika Kihira, who delivered a really good Short and, unfortunately, [I think the pressure got to her in the Free Skate].
Kite: She should have won the Short by a lot with the performance that she gave and she didn't. [Evie and Yogeeta: Yes] She was second to Anna Shcherbakova. Again, I would love for someone to explain to me why in a way that doesn't involve mentioning the countries of the skaters involved. Even though she did very well in the Short Program, she got 79, it's feeling like you went out there, you did the program with superior technical difficulty, she should be getting higher PCS than all of the Russians, frankly, and then seeing that it still wasn't enough - that can really rattle your confidence. And especially in a year where she knew very well that Japan's Olympic spots were really hinging on her because she has the highest scoring potential [of the Japanese Ladies] and having that pressure put on you and going into the Free Skate knowing what's been happening, I think you're right, the pressure got to her and it was really unfortunate. I don't even remember the last time I've seen her fall like that on a triple Axel because that thing has basically been rock-solid for the past year and a half. It kind of devolved for a little bit into this situation of "Are we in a repeat of 2017? Are Japan's Olympic spots about to be in danger again?"
Evie: I think it was also, the pressure coming into the Free, she was probably looking at how Satoko [Miyahara] did and how, in the Short, she had those problems and knowing that the Olympic spots were on the line and it was so critical for Japan not to be in a similar situation that they were at PyeongChang, where they only had two Ladies spots. That pressure must have been intense going into the Free, that kind of mental stress that she was under to skate clean or clean enough to guarantee the spots. I do not envy her at all.
Yogeeta: I am glad that she managed to keep it mostly together after her errors and she did skate well enough for Japan to keep their three spots. Honestly, the breath of like "Thank God" that went through me when I saw she placed sixth.
Evie: Japanese Nationals won't be as heartbreaking as it was in 2017, when they only had two spots, because that was hard to watch.
Yogeeta: Well if you want to talk about heartbreaking... we kind of have to talk about Satoko Miyahara.
Evie: I mean... the Short Program just kind of completely fell apart. She was coming into this with really limited training and preparation, considering she's been in Canada for the last couple of months. Again, screw the ISU for making all of these skaters compete with the level of preparation that they've had and expecting the same level of competition that you'd get in a usual year.
Kite: I honestly challenge you to find another currently competing lady that has [that level of] performance quality, the expressiveness, the awareness of her body on the ice and of the music. I challenge you to find another lady that does that better than Satoko.
Evie: I would not be able to find you one.
Yogeeta: One does not exist.
Kite: She had errors here, obviously, but the fact that she doesn't regularly score in the mid-70s in PCS is really unfathomable to me when you have Ladies breaking 70 who should be in the mid to low 60s if they were being scored correctly. It's unfortunate that she struggled so much here but I think my heartbreak for her, again, was tinged with a sort of anger that the moment that one of these Ladies makes a mistake that it's over. They're just going to throw the book at them.
Evie: I really hope that this performance at Worlds doesn't dissuade her for next season, going into the Olympic year, because there is a lot of domestic competition in Japan in Ladies. There's a lot that could happen there.
Yogeeta: Okay, moving onto some happier times - Karen Chen. Everyone say thank you, Karen. Honestly, what is it with Karen and pre-Olympic Worlds? The combination is just magic. It just works, it's just wow. Similar to 2017 Worlds, Karen finished fourth here - once again, the highest placements for [US Ladies at Worlds] since Ashley Wagner won her Worlds medal. And helped once again secure three spots at the Olympics for US Ladies.
Kite: I'm really glad that Karen managed to hold it together here and do so well especially because Bradie [Tennell], the other US lady, kind of had a rough go of it. Karen was actually third at US Nationals this year and she ended up being sent to Worlds over Amber Glenn, who was the silver medallist because her international scores were higher than Amber's in the few times they directly competed against each other. That was definitely the right call here because Karen held it together.
Yogeeta: Yeah, Karen definitely had the higher scoring potential and she proved why. There were some questionable non-calls made because there were a couple of [underrotations] that probably should have been called - but also given her low her components were, the difference basically broke even to me.
Kite: I mean, you alluded to this earlier, but someone please explain to me how she beat Sasha Trusova - who fell twice in the Free Skate - in PCS by a single point. I think it was 66 for Sasha and 67 for Karen, who was basically clean - and Karen skated in the last group too, which is when you usually see PCS being boosted and she didn't really get that favor at all. Honestly, if you're not tearing up when Karen goes into her spiral sequence, you don't have a heart.
Yogeeta: If you don't see her spiral sequence and then immediately think "Yes, performance! At least 9 in components," I don't know who you are. Well, no, I know who you are, you're all these judges on this [panel].
Evie: Let's talk about another lady who, in our ideal world, would have made the podium - Loena Hendrickx.
Yogeeta: It was so nice to see her again.
Evie: Especially after the Olympics, we saw her at 2018 Worlds, where she did really well. I think a lot of us had her on our bingo cards that she could potentially be a future European medallist, or at least one of the top European Ladies going forward, and, unfortunately, in the post-Olympic year and last season she had a lot of struggles with injury. She missed a lot of competitions and wasn't in that form that we saw her in during the Olympic year. But here? Oh my god, she skated so well overall. I forgot how much I loved her skating. Like her spin positions, man, I forgot how good they were because I haven't seen her in ages and when I watched her Free Skate, I was like "Oh that's why I'm a fan of you!" [laughter]
Yogeeta: Yeah, she definitely suffered scoring-wise due to her not skating because of injury [in the last two seasons], so her reputation suffered. But it was lovely to see her again. Can't wait to see her at the Olympics. She got Belgium two [conditional] Olympic spots! I don't know Belgium has a second lady but hey!
Evie: I don't think they do or, at least, one that has the [TES] minimums.
Yogeeta: Also shoutout to the Korean Ladies, Yelim Kim and Haein Lee. They both had extremely hectic times in the lead-up to this competition. They had both just competed at Korean Nationals and then the Korean Ranking Competition - because the KSU decided hey, you know what we need right before Worlds? A bunch of other domestic competitions that our skaters need to attend or else they can't go to Worlds!
Evie: They do that every year and it's always surprising, the amount of compulsory domestic competitions they have for domestic ranking. Surely you look at that and go "Wouldn't this tire your skaters out so much more than what is needed in a season?" And the fact that they still did that during a pandemic when social distancing levels in Korea were all over the place during this year, they've had limited ice time. I don't understand the KSU's decision-making.
Yogeeta: No one understands the KSU's decision-making.
Evie: Like surely they could have just done Nationals and not the ranking competition. Despite all of that, I think both of them still skated extremely well at this event. Especially for Haein, this was her first major Senior competition as well - that's extremely impressive. And Yelim, as well, skated so strongly. She really has been on a rise at both Nationals, the Ranking Competition to now. We love to see Korean Ladies flourishing!
Yogeeta: Yes! After the Short Program, there was some hope that they could have secured three spots for Korean Ladies at Beijing but, unfortunately, after some mistakes in both of their Frees, they only managed to secure two spots so we'll see how Korean Ladies at Olympics goes.
Evie: And shout out to Madeline Schizas of Canada because this was the first time I had ever seen her skate - I didn't follow any of the Canadian domestic competitions this season - and I was really impressed by her! This was her first major Senior international competition and that Short Program, she skated clean, which is insane. Especially if you consider how the Canadian Ladies have faired over the last couple of years, it's really nice to see someone come out with some really great skates. She kind of reminds me of Kaetlyn Osmond in her jumping style because she's also a clockwise rotator and she also has that really big height in all of her jumps. I'm excited to see her growth. She's definitely on my list of skaters to watch.
Yogeeta: Yeah, I hadn't seen her skate before either, and I, honestly, have been very concerned about Canadian Ladies this past quad so very excited to see the growth that she'll bring and hopefully more growth in Canadian Ladies again in the upcoming quad. One last shout out we'd like to make is to Maé-Bérénice Méité of France who, unfortunately, had to withdraw during the Short Program after she ruptured her Achilles tendon on her first jumping pass. We hope she recovers safely.
Evie: When they were processing the withdrawal, they replayed the injury like a billion times [on the stream]-
Yogeeta: It was not needed.
Evie: No, absolutely not. Also, first aid didn't come and meet her out on the ice which, I believe, that is the protocol if a skater can make it off the ice by themselves - if they're not concussed or have a possible head or spinal injury. But she obviously could not put any weight on the foot that she hurt. I question why first aid didn't get out there and help her out on a stretcher or anything. I really hope that she has a smooth recovery process because those injuries are not kind.
Yogeeta: Looking forward to the Olympics, Russia and Japan both have three spots for the Olympics. I have no clue who Russia is sending.
Evie: Who knows, considering the number of Juniors who are probably going to move up to Seniors next year... Who the hell knows?
Yogeeta: For the Japanese team, Rika and Kaori have definitely proven over this past quad that they have the body of work that they should be on this team. Both of them are fairly consistent skaters, Kaori has been extremely consistent in this very weird season that we've had, Rika has the highest scoring potential. It's a kind of a no-brainer there. Kaori has also been to the Olympics before, so she has that experience under her belt as well. I can't imagine them not choosing Kaori but also JSF has really dumb rules for their [Olympic team selection] so... who knows what they'll do. But I don't know who that third spot will be. Hopefully Satoko will be better, if not, maybe Wakaba [Higuchi] will finally be consistent next season, Rino [Matsuike] was [4th place] at Japanese Nationals so, if she goes Senior next season, she potentially could get on that Olympic team. So there's a handful of Japanese Ladies who potentially could make that third Olympic spot and, honestly, I'm not sure who it will be. Moving on, the US is guaranteed two spots but are eligible to win a third at Nebelhorn, so they just need to have a lady finish in the top 7. Amber Glenn, for example, could easily do that. I'm not too concerned.
Evie: And don't forget that Alysa [Liu] is going to be going up to Seniors probably next year. I mean, I don't see why she wouldn't, considering she'll be age-eligible. So that will be interesting to see how that plays out in Seniors and how she'll fare on that stage.
Kite: I mean, Alysa has been struggling with growth this season but, from what we saw from her at US Nationals, she's still very capable of being top two or top three in US Ladies, if she can skate two clean programs.
Yogeeta: Korea has two spots and four potential Ladies that could qualify for those spots. So, good luck.
Evie: Yeah, Yelim, Haein, Young [You], and Eunsoo [Lim] all potentially could get those spots so... the fight domestically over that is going to be extremely interesting next year - and extremely stress-inducing, I feel.
Yogeeta: Belgium and Austria both have one guaranteed spot, but they are eligible to win a second spot at Nebelhorn - but I don't know if [either] has another top lady they could send? In some sad news, because of Maé's withdrawal, France does not have a spot for Ladies currently. So they will need to find a lady to compete at Nebelhorn to win that spot back. Olympic season Nebelhorn is going to be such a blast, guys.
Evie: [incredibly sarcastically] Oh yeah, I can't wait for the Olympic season. I'm so excited and enthused.
Kite: Let's survive the off-season first.
Evie: Let's survive World Team Trophy, that's happening in a few weeks!
Kite: True, I got a little too optimistic there, that we would even make it to the off-season! [laughter].
Evie: Thank you for listening! We hope to see you again for our next episode which will, unfortunately, cover more of Worlds but, this time, the logistics side of things. Look forward to that in a few weeks!
Yogeeta: Thanks to our transcribing and quality control team, Evie as always for editing, and Gabb for graphic design.
Kite: If you want to get in touch with us, then please feel free to contact us via our website inthelopodcast.com or on our Twitter. You can find our episodes on Youtube, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.
Evie: If you enjoy the show, and want to help support the team, then please consider making a donation to us on our ko-fi page, and we’d like to give a huge thank you to all the listeners who have contributed to our team thus far.
Yogeeta: You can find the links to all our social media pages and our ko-fi on the website.
Kite: If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, please consider leaving a rating and a review if you enjoyed the show. Thanks for listening, this has been Kite,
Yogeeta: Yogeeta
Evie: and Evie. See ya!
Kite and Yogeeta: Bye!